Talk:Prince Mianning

I've already made a note about succession on the page for the Jiaqing Emperor, but I thought it should be noted that Mianning had an elder brother, Mianmu. Wikipedia doesn't have information on him, but if Mianning is said to be the eldest (Is he? I can't remember, but it sounds right), then Mianmu must have died by the time of Throne Of Jade. This also means that the emperor's third son (only mentioned) must be Mianxin. Almaron 14:48, 8 September 2010 (PDT)

Wikipedia has a bit more info via the articles on the Jiaqing Emperor's consorts. Hitara, Empress Shu Rui, married him in 1774 and was the mother of Miannu (who died in infancy) and Mianning, as well as at least one daughter; Hitara died in 1797. Niuhuru, Empress He Rui, became a court lady in 1795 and was the mother of Miankai (1795-1838?), Mianxin (1805-1828?), and one or two daughters-- interestingly, Niuhuru's article says that the Jiaqing Emperor died without leaving a succession decree, and *she* was the one who named her stepson as the next emperor. --Wombat1138 18:59, 8 September 2010 (PDT)

Dragon Succession

From what we've managed to work out about the Chinese royal family in the Temeraire series, I think it's highly likely that the heir to the Chinese throne is chosen not by the current Emperor, but by the Celestial dragon who will be the next consort. Think about it. If Celestials are only permitted to be paired with Emperors, and the dragon is given freedom to choose their companion, then that choice would finalise things. We know that Mianning historically was not a Crown Prince, yet in this world he is, and is already companion to a Celestial.

It's speculation, but I think we should add a note along the lines of this in brackets. Almaron 04:10, 10 September 2010 (PDT)

I can see your line of reasoning, but I'm not entirely convinced-- my take on it is that NN simply assumed that since Mianning became the next emperor, then he was declared as Crown Prince during his father's death. Otherwise, Laurence should've been doubly placed by his adoption by the Emperor *and* his companionship to Temeraire as next in the Imperial succession to Mianning. FWIW, the exact quotes from searching Amazon/Google Books are (emphasis added):

• • "The Qianlong Emperor was going to give [Lien] to a prince out in Mongolia, so her bad luck wouldn't hurt any of his sons, but Yongxing insisted on having her himself instead of letting a Celestial go outside the Imperial family. He could have been Emperor himself, but of course you couldn't have an Emperor with a cursed dragon, it would be a disaster for the State." (ToJ p295)
  • "[Laurence]'s adoption by the Emperor had been purely and strictly pro forma, a matter of saving face for the Chinese, who had insisted that a Celestial might not be companion to any but a direct connection of the imperial family" (BPW p20)
  • "[The adoption by the Emperor was a mere technicality to allow the] official imprimatur to Laurence serving as companion to a Celestial dragon, a privilege reserved, among them, solely for the Imperial family" (EoI p72)

Celestials aren't just limited to the Emperors themselves-- the rest of the Imperial family and their "direct connections" are also acceptable. IMHO, the companionship of a suitable Celestial may be *necessary* for a prospective Emperor, but it's not *sufficient*. (Though a somewhat related idea I've been considering, based on Grandfather's age and parentage, is that the fall of the Ming Dynasty in Temeraire's world may'be been hastened by the development of endogamous sterility among their Celestials... actually, since that's even more off-topic wrt this article, I think I'll put that onto my Talk page.) --Wombat1138 10:10, 10 September 2010 (PDT)