Talk:Lung Tien Xian

Do we have proof that Xian and Grandfather are the same Celestial? I thought Qian's quote about her lineage, that she was "hatched of Xian" suggested that Xian was a female, now deceased (Of course, Qian could be being poetic, and instead means that she is of Xian's line).

I was just about to ask this. Ha. Talking about it over on the Celestial talk page. I don't think it is the case. --- Strangerface 17:34, 15 August 2010 (PDT)

On further consideration, perhaps the user that linked Grandfather and Xian assumed the name "Grandfather" meant he was literally Temeraire's grandfather, and thus had to be the same dragon as Qian's sire. But it could just as easily be a term of endearment. Or he may be Qian's grandfather, and thus Temeraire's great-grandfather? -- Strangerface 17:41, 15 August 2010 (PDT)

Alternately, Qian could be referring to the oldest Celestial as *her* grandfather... although the phrase "hatched of Xian" also implies to me that Xian was female, which might conflict with that. By context (i.e., not fully naming her as "Lung Qin Xian"), Qian does seem to identify Xian as a Celestial, who therefore couldn't've interbred with Grandfather. Or, as Strangerface mentions, "Grandfather" could simply be a non-literal title of affection/respect that identifies him as the eldest living Celestial: NN doesn't take account that in traditional Chinese culture, it's considered very disrespectful to use the names of older relatives instead of a kinship title. (At least for previous generations-- I don't think it applies to adults and their older cousins, such as Temeraire wrt Lien.) -- Wombat1138 09:36, 16 August 2010 (PDT)

I suppose the reasoning behind it comes from Qian counting off her family, she mentions "besides Grandfather and Chu", and prior to that she has mentioned Xian, Grandfather & Chu. Of course, she is referring to the remaining dragons, so Xian could have died. However, I find I prefer Xian as "Grandfather" (which he would technically be to Qian, if my current table is right), and Ming or Zhi (probably Ming, as she listed him first) as Qian's father. Plus, I think the page is gone now, but a while back someone had pointed out that "Xian" meant first, or beginning, or something that suited Grandfather, being the first of their Celestial Dynasty.

- User:Almaron (how do you get it to leave the text after your name?)

And also, now that I think of it, there could be countless deceased Celestial relations, but that strikes me as unlikely when Grandfather is still alive. That would make Ming and Zhi cousins of Qian, and mean that both their and Qian's parents were deceased, but again, I think that's unlikely when Grandfather is alive, and it's not like a Celestial faces any major threat to their life at any time in China.

Well I did not know Xian meant first. That certainly supports the case that Grandfather and Xian are the same dragon. But I'd also argue that it's not the case that Celestials didn't face any major threat to their lives. Should there be political upheaval, then they'd be at great risk. Again, I don't know much about the history of China, but if Grandfather were old enough to have served with an Emperor before the fall of the Ming Dynasty then some of his offspring would've probably had to commit suicide with the rest of the Emperor's household? Or, IDK, in any struggle for the throne people would certainly want to kill the Emperor's Celestial as a way of indicating that he had lost the favor of Heaven? (Chuan probably would've been killed if Yongxing's scheme succeeded?) I'm making this up completely, I know, but I'm just saying it's hard to guess at with only a few lines of dialog from Qian that could mean almost anything?

In any case, there is at least one thing I know for sure: to stamp your name after a comment put four tilde (~) signs in a row. -- Strangerface 20:11, 15 August 2010 (PDT)